Transcript
[00:04] Introduction of the episode
Jerry Helmers: This is KeukenCast, the podcast for trade professionals with ambition in the kitchen industry. In each episode, an expert joins us to discuss the most important trends, themes and developments. And we don't shy away from discussion either. At the kitchen table, on the kitchen table, under the kitchen table, we do it all. My name is Jerry Helmers and I will be your host and presenter. I give you a warm welcome. And how nice it is: with me at the table here in the studio two guests. To my left is Jos Creemers of CreJos and to my right is my regular sidekick Maarten Zegstroo. Good day to you both. Gentlemen, do you feel like it?
Maarten Zegstroo: Definitely.
Jos Creemers: Yes, definitely.
Jerry Helmers: Yes exactly, glad to be back. Jos, before we start presenting you with all kinds of statements, because we're going to start a little bit stilted later on with agree and disagree statements about the kitchen industry. Who are you? What brought you here? What do you do in your daily life? You're pretty active in the kitchen industry. Tell us.
Jos Creemers: Exactly. I'm Jos Creemers, 38 years old, living in Weert. So a home game for you.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, exactly.
Jos Creemers: Business in Weert. Started for myself in 2008, so now seventeen years since I started. Just on my own. I'm basically just a furniture and interior builder and I built the business from there. Today there are ten of us, eight kitchen stores in the Netherlands that we supply for. These are kitchen dealers, CreJos dealers. And I myself do the sales privately in the middle and high segment, so complete interiors from the kitchen to the bedside table, bathroom cabinet and closet.
[02:02] CreJos and the role of interior
Jerry Helmers: Are you talking about flooring, for example?
Jos Creemers: Floors not really, just the interior.
Jerry Helmers: Okay, because that is a trend I do see a little bit. I've already seen kitchen specialty stores in the Netherlands that are also slowly shifting to selling flooring. And I as a person am happy about that, because I bought a new apartment, it needs a new kitchen, so I'm totally in that journey. And yeah, what kind of flooring am I going to look for with that? I did like the fact that I discovered that, that maybe that's gradually going to be integrated. What do you think about that?
Jos Creemers: So immediately substantive question. Yes, definitely. Certainly for a kitchen store. But we are really on the making, producing the kitchens and interiors. So a factory in Weert. And so that's where we produce for those eight stores. But myself, in sales privately, so I don't do that on top of that. We really sit down with the architect and there we answer that question in the interior itself.
Jerry Helmers: A beautiful kitchen at home?
Jos Creemers: Yes, yes, yes.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, yes, calling indeed. If you say, well, it's really a mess, I don't have anything at all, we would have immediately sent you away from this podcast. You understand that.
[03:13] Maarten introduces himself
Jerry Helmers: Well, across from you sits Maarten Zegstroo, our regular columnist. And you also have all the freedom to break in nicely when you want to break in. What are your expectations and your plans from this podcast? And tell again to that single listener who doesn't know who you are, who you are.
Maarten Zegstroo: I'm Maarten, I've been a trade editor in the kitchen industry for fifteen years. So I've written for different magazines. So I'm part of the family in the kitchen industry and I enjoy myself there.
Jerry Helmers: What do you expect from this podcast?
Maarten Zegstroo: That we get a glimpse into the design world within the kitchen industry.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, because of course we did have a preliminary discussion with our guest Jos Creemers and we are going to talk about Japandi, the new trend, anyway. Or is it a hype? Well, what do you think it is, Maarten?
Maarten Zegstroo: I think it's hype.
Jerry Helmers: A hype is. A year from now we won't be talking about it?
Maarten Zegstroo: No, a little longer though.
Jerry Helmers: Okay, a little longer though. But in any case, it runs again.
Maarten Zegstroo: I think so. I also believed very much in industrial and that is also kind of getting away.
Jerry Helmers: Okay, absolutely right. Well, no doubt we're going to hear more about it in a moment.
[04:30] The first propositions
Jerry Helmers: We're going to move to the propositions. Jos, I have ten propositions here on my card. I've numbered those from one to ten. You can just say which number you want to hear. I'll then read the proposition. Yes, I want to hear from you right away: agree or disagree?
Jos Creemers: Okay. Number eight.
Jerry Helmers: Number eight. Here it comes. The Japandi style will be as forgotten in five years as the high-gloss white trend of the year 2010.
Jos Creemers: Disagree.
Jerry Helmers: Disagree. I already feel a discussion coming on, because Martin will think differently about this. You may say another number, because I want to give you a total of three statements.
Jos Creemers: Number three.
Jerry Helmers: Number three. Customers buy a feeling, not a kitchen.
Jos Creemers: Agreed.
Jerry Helmers: Once are you. Interesting. Well, one more you may do.
Jos Creemers: Number five.
Jerry Helmers: Number five. The kitchen specialty store is still the strongest link in the industry.
Jos Creemers: Disagree.
Jerry Helmers: Disagree. You had to think about that very briefly, I could tell by your furrowed brows.
Jos Creemers: True.
Jerry Helmers: Now name another number, because then we're going to, of course I had a total of ten statements, but then I'm going to put them to today's columnist. Pick the hardest number.
Jos Creemers: Nine.
Jerry Helmers: Nine. Coming up, Martin. Customers who choose Japandi often have trouble imagining their kitchens functionally.
Maarten Zegstroo: Disagree.
Jerry Helmers: Disagree. I sense fun debates coming up. We're going to talk about Japandi. Are you ready?
Jos Creemers: Sure.
[06:07] What is Japandi?
Jerry Helmers: Jos.
Jos Creemers: Yes.
Jerry Helmers: What is Japandi? Because that's what you wanted to talk about.
Jos Creemers: Yes. Well, I wanted to talk about Japandi. We see that trend coming back a lot. Japandi is a Japanese style combined with a Scandinavian style. And yes, what is it? In terms of colors earth tones, soft tones. But then what is the Japandi kitchen? The minimalist actually, what you see in it. So combined with a kitchen top, a top in an earth tone. But you also see the clean lines, so the handles. A few years ago there was a lot of handle-less and push-button systems, but you see the handle coming back. We developed a special Japandi handle, so we made it ourselves in the factory. It's a plywood handle. That comes back on the front, same color, same wood. It's all simplicity really. That's Japandi.
Jerry Helmers: Keep it simple. Japandi is keep it simple.
Jos Creemers: Exactly.
[07:17] Why Japan and Scandinavia are coming together
Jerry Helmers: But how can something from Japan come together with something Scandinavian? Where is that match in it?
Jos Creemers: Yes, that is that we have more the interest in nature. In the wood, concrete, peace mainly. People just want to decorate the house more, so more of a whole. So the kitchen often flows into the living room and sitting room and you name it.
Jerry Helmers: Yeah, that's been going on for about 10, 15, maybe 20 years, the open kitchen, right?
Jos Creemers: That's right, but not the complete. So not the complete story. So then they put a white high-gloss kitchen, but if you hang a white high-gloss TV cabinet, it doesn't match. So you see that now in the Japandi style. So that's completely carried through, the whole house. And yeah, that's just a nice quiet style.
[08:15] Why does Japandi fit this zeitgeist?
Jerry Helmers: Where does that come from? Obviously we're not a philosophy podcast, we're not a podcast that does psychological analysis, but I do a little bit. Where does this come from? Because then obviously there is something in society, in people, why we adopt this. Or does it come from within ourselves after all? Where does this come from?
Jos Creemers: Yes, from Japan anyway. But the Japandi style kind of evolved from wabi-sabi. So that's also a Japanese style. There you also see more and more wood coming back combined with soft colors.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, but that has to do with the psyche of human beings. In daily life, are we too busy, too busy, too busy, so we are seeking rest in some way?
Jos Creemers: Yes, it exudes tranquility. Tranquility, simplicity. And that's what people want.
Jerry Helmers: That's what people want. Maarten, do you have a Japandi kitchen at home?
Maarten Zegstroo: No, unfortunately not. Because I do like the style, even though I think it's temporary.
Jerry Helmers: But where do you think it comes from? We've just drawn a very little tentative conclusion ourselves: could it be because we're in a society or in a zeitgeist where everybody is busy, busy, busy, busy? And we're looking for peace at home.
Maarten Zegstroo: Yes, tranquility and sociability, I think. I think Japandi can be very important in that. Because the years before, of course, we saw mainly dark, very dark kitchens.
Jerry Helmers: Also nice.
Maarten Zegstroo: Which are very beautiful, especially after dark.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, well. Your greasy fingers, of course, you saw everywhere.
Maarten Zegstroo: And super beautiful too when it's evening and the lights are on. A little less attractive during the daytime, I personally think. A subjective opinion for me. And with Japandi it looks, I've mentioned before, a bit beach house-like. Nice to be home again.
Jerry Helmers: Nice to be back home, but because we're looking for that rest.
Maarten Zegstroo: Yes, I think so too.
[10:24] Trend or hype?
Jerry Helmers: Thank you very much. You said, Japandi is not a trend, it's hype. Define the term hype.
Maarten Zegstroo: Hype, to my mind, is something that is temporary, that is embraced, very much embraced, and gradually bleeds to death.
Jerry Helmers: But why is that? Because then in two or in three years we literally don't like it anymore?
Maarten Zegstroo: No, I don't think so. I think it is a style that we will embrace for a long time, but adapted.
Jerry Helmers: So the trend is adapting and that's why it's not hype?
Maarten Zegstroo: The trend adapts, that's why it's hype.
Jerry Helmers: That's why it's hype. Very good. What will Japandi look like two or three years from now, Jos?
Jos Creemers: I think of course trends or hypes are always adopted. But the Japandi style is in my mind, will it continue for a few more years. Because there aren't that many standing yet. We are very busy with the Japandi style though. I also often compare it to, look, the previous style you did see the hotel chic style. That was also a trend or hype for a year or so. I think that does have more of a correlation. I also sometimes compare it to a hotel. A hotel also thinks for example, Van der Valk, you look at a certain style, they furnish it accordingly. You saw that in 2008, 2009, they started with that hotel chic direction. And as long as people go to Van der Valk or go to a hotel, they adopt that style. Yeah, see it and then they say: I want that at home too. And so now you also have hotels, in Best they also completely converted to Japandi-style.
Jerry Helmers: Hotel Van der Valk in Best?
Jos Creemers: Yes. And they're not going to frame it on hype. So that really is a trend. So that trend, it's going to stay. In my mind, it really will stay for some time. But it would be modified. So it's going more towards, they're now talking all about organic and organic forms, that you believe in that as well. A lot of concrete, cement, but nature-like colors. But it's really just tranquility. So I think that's it. So what is a certain style? As long as it exudes tranquility and you keep calm for everything else.
[13:04] What segment does Japandi fit into?
Jerry Helmers: Specifically in the market, Japandi, in what price range should we think?
Jos Creemers: Yes, that's a heartbreaking question.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, but you state...
Jos Creemers: Yes, yes. So the question is very often: what does a kitchen cost?
Jerry Helmers: No, but are we there, if you can then maybe categorize into segments, for example, is that the middle segment, the upper segment?
Jos Creemers: That's mid- to high-end.
Jerry Helmers: Maarten, what do you define as mid- to high-end, in terms of price?
Maarten Zegstroo: Middle about 22,000, I think, start. And to high ... really, that high is high.
[13:49] Will Japandi remain as it is now?
Jerry Helmers: Okay. What do you think of Jos' argument? So who says that it does persist for longer, at least ten years, and some more organic forms are going to come back into that. You don't quite agree with that. How should I see that?
Maarten Zegstroo: If you listen to my answer carefully, I indeed said of: a modified form I do see happening. Just the style as it has been presented frequently now, I think it will indeed be adapted.
Jerry Helmers: Is he not going to make it then, that current style?
Maarten Zegstroo: Yes, it does make it because it is commercially attractive. If I were to buy a kitchen now and I had money for the mid-range, I might choose a Japandi kitchen. So it has nothing to do with whether I like it or not, but I think in terms of design it can be so sensitive that that makes it temporary.
[14:44] What does the showroom salesperson need to know?
Jerry Helmers: What does the showroom salesman in the Netherlands need to know about Japandi? Because I do feel that Jos is almost an ambassador of Japandi. Is that a good description? Or am I making it too big now? You are an ambassador of Japandi.
Jos Creemers: Definitely. They sometimes call me Mister Japandi.
Jerry Helmers: Mister Japandi. Maarten, so that's who we have here at the table. Mister Japandi.
Jos Creemers: Because we post a lot in Japandi. That's just a style that a lot of...
Jerry Helmers: Yes, because then you are so active on social media to bring attention especially to that Japandi. But anyway, those listeners, kitchen retailers also in the Netherlands, that showroom salesperson who is also listening to this conversation. What does he or she need to know about Japandi to make that sales pitch to the consumer even stronger? Maarten, if you think something about that, interrupt. Or add something. What do we need to tell that showroom salesperson?
Jos Creemers: That he needs to convert his showroom. It has to exude tranquility. Simplicity. Provide accents, soft colors. Yes, what is Japandi again? Then I look at it. Japandi in oak suits. You can pack it in walnut. You can show so many woods, but it doesn't necessarily have to be in wood. You can also just take a uni color, so a plain melamine. And pretty simple. Yes, but I do think that every kitchen store, yes, you can't escape it, they should have a Japandi style in it.
Jerry Helmers: Yes? What then? Are you likely to sell?
Jos Creemers: Yes, definitely. Those sales, that demand is there.
Maarten Zegstroo: Yes, I share that opinion with Jos. So what else should we tell showroom salespeople? That it's a style embraced by designers as well as fashion designers. And in the end, of course, it is always these people who determine what we all think is beautiful.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, what do you mean by these people? Fashion designers?
Maarten Zegstroo: Fashion designers and designers in general, architects. People, of course, are easily led in what they like and are surprised once every few years with a style kitchen. And sometimes that comes back again. And now I think: Japandi is new and that makes it extra fresh and extra interesting. And people are always looking for something that others don't have much yet. And that makes it commercially interesting for me.
[17:28] Where does the breakthrough come from?
Jerry Helmers: But I keep wondering: where did it suddenly come from? We're recording this podcast now, it's almost the middle of 2025. I don't know for a moment, at least I can't remember if we talked about Japandi last year, so to speak, in 2024. In any case, I can't remember for a moment, but where is that coming from all of a sudden? Because when you say: we're all busy, busy, busy, busy, busy. We're looking for peace. That was the same ten years ago, wasn't it?
Jos Creemers: Yes, back then we were really much less on social media. And social media is just really a forerunner. Or your precursor ... we're on it, we're looking at it. And you come home at night, you open it and you see a kitchen that radiates tranquility. And yes, that's what people want. So where does it come from? Yes, we put the first kitchen somewhere in 2018.
Jerry Helmers: A Japandi kitchen?
Jos Creemers: A Japandi kitchen, yes.
Jerry Helmers: You mean, you posted the first post on social media about Japandi cuisine in 2018?
Jos Creemers: Yes, only it wasn't called Japandi then. I didn't know what it was called or anything. It was a distinct style. People had just seen something on social media and said, can you make this? So we made that kitchen, posted it and then the second request came in a bathroom cabinet. Can you make that too? And we actually did that more and more. So yeah, I maintain that social media is just a precursor to what people want. So that's an example of how it's going to be.
Maarten Zegstroo: No, I think he has a point there. What I am curious about though, what Jos' opinion is in that: last Küchenmeile, Japandi has been the biggest presented style by a lot of kitchen furniture manufacturers.
Jerry Helmers: Yes, that was indeed the moment.
Maarten Zegstroo: And finally, in terms of preparation, I also visited your site for a while. And so I also saw a Japandi kitchen that looks different from all the Japandi kitchens I've seen on the Küchenmeile. Is that a deliberate choice on your part or is there more to the style Japandi?
Jerry Helmers: Very briefly, what was it different in, that kitchen, compared to what you saw there?
Maarten Zegstroo: A different wood color than what I saw on the Küchenmeile.
Jos Creemers: In terms of color, it doesn't matter very much. So it does in terms of construction, how we make the Japandi. The first Japandi gave me a headache, so to speak. You have to deal with handles, frames that stick out, revolving doors. So that's really a tricky thing. But the more you make, the more experience you get. What's different in my opinion: the kitchen factories, manufacturers in Germany mainly, that's where most of the kitchens come from, they're just behind, just got in too late. A factory has to be converted, so to convert that whole factory to Japandi, that's just difficult. It remains, I think, that a furniture and interior builder can move faster. And we're just good to make that multiple, so to then make it commercial as well. Yes, that's really the story.
[20:50] Are customers buying a feel or a kitchen?
Jerry Helmers: You said there a moment ago about the proposition: customers buy a feeling, not a kitchen.
Jos Creemers: Yes, right.
Jerry Helmers: So they actually buy the Japandi feeling in this case? Because you agreed with the statement.
Jos Creemers: Yes, feeling, perception. And eventually a customer will give you the award. Then if the price is right, then you have the award.
[21:12] Does atmosphere take precedence over functionality?
Jerry Helmers: With Japandi cuisine, is there a risk that atmosphere will take precedence over functionality?
Jos Creemers: Yes, a little bit maybe. Especially with those round shapes. We can make a door from the side of an island, for example. We see that often, that it's rounded. So that might be okay. No corners either, so that's functional. You can't bump yourself, so that's convenient.
Jerry Helmers: But I think: a kitchen you should also just be able to cook in it.
Jos Creemers: Yes, you can. That's for sure.
Jerry Helmers: How do you see that, Martin?
Maarten Zegstroo: I haven't seen any Japandi cuisine that I thought: this is where it loses its functionality.
Jerry Helmers: The kitchen does remain kitchen.
Maarten Zegstroo: The kitchen remains kitchen.
[22:01] Does Japandi suit the down-to-earth Dutchman?
Jerry Helmers: When you say: we as the Dutch are quite a down-to-earth people. Does Japandi fit in with that? That whole philosophical story behind it. Aren't we too down-to-earth for that?
Jos Creemers: No.
Jerry Helmers: No?
Jos Creemers: Because someone who is down-to-earth will still choose natural materials. Timeless is that. Oak has been around for so long. And a marble top or a concrete top, that stays. So that's just timeless. A sober person chooses timeless.
Maarten Zegstroo: Basically, the shades used at Japandi are also already sober shades.
Jerry Helmers: So we're actually kind of back to basics together. Sort of a reset in society.
Jos Creemers: Yes.
Maarten Zegstroo: Yes.
[23:03] Maarten's Minute - trends in the kitchen
Maarten Zegstroo: We have done a lot of off-design in recent years. From high-gloss white with handleless fronts to robust concrete looks and dark wood tones. The kitchen is no longer just functional. It has become mood creator, living space and business card all in one. We saw industrial touches come and go. Black faucets, for a while really everywhere. And marble prints are making a solid comeback. Not to mention the rise of color. From deep greens and soft terracotta that we've also seen in recent years. And now? Japandi is hot. Tranquility, natural materials, minimalism and natural materials are merging into a style that feels zen. But will it stay that way? So the question for Jos is: How often is a trend actually permanent for you? And how do you see that with Japandi? Actually, you've already given a lot of answers to it, but is it a stayer or a transient with style?
[24:21] Is Japandi a keeper?
Jerry Helmers: Well Jos, how often is a trend permanent? Or is this Japandi a transient with style?
Jos Creemers: Well, that does remain. And this is a style that I do believe in, that will stay. So you do see it coming back or staying longer. So yes, it will stay for a while.
Maarten Zegstroo: And is it in the form of the type of cabinets that are often there, the framed cabinets? Or do you see it in the colors? So where is the sustainable element? Because we just talked about that Japandi is probably going to adapt or evolve. So what is going to change and what is not?
[25:32] How Japandi will develop
Jos Creemers: That's tricky. What is going to change? I do believe that maybe the island will become more rounded. You do see that for sure. We have Japandi, which is also just a kitchen direction. Japandi is just very broad. What makes it Japandi? That's those surrounds, clean lines, those handles and the front material. It has to exude simplicity. Now you see round shapes being added. Then you still call it Japandi. But I do think we are moving even more toward the round.
[26:14] Why are round shapes being embraced now?
Maarten Zegstroo: That's interesting, because we've both been around quite a long time. Around I've seen come before and then the industry reacted very differently than now. Where is it in it for you that it is being embraced now?
Jos Creemers: Yes, that's tricky. Round looks just a little more luxurious anyway. Organic shapes are just calmer. So it exudes tranquility.
[27:03] What styles continue to coexist with Japandi?
Jerry Helmers: What styles remain besides Japandi? Because maybe listeners now conclude: Japandi is hot and Japandi is the only one. But are there other styles that continue to sell well?
Jos Creemers: From 2008 I've been building a lot of country styles. So the country kitchen, thick legs, also frames, so inset doors. And you see that a little bit back now in the Japandi. So the fronts are also framed, only the frame sticks out compared to a country kitchen.
Jerry Helmers: So that country style is staying?
Jos Creemers: Yes, country remains. That's not a runner, but people still really continue to look at a country style.
Jerry Helmers: What else?
Jos Creemers: We also still have black kitchens, but more combined with lighter side walls.
[28:44] Other enduring kitchen styles
Maarten Zegstroo: I agree with Jos that nationwide stays. And I also think that a retailer should never fill an entire store with Japandi.
Jos Creemers: No, definitely not. It has to be a combination.
Maarten Zegstroo: And I think handle-less high gloss will always exist somewhere.
Jos Creemers: I see less of that. We don't make high-gloss kitchens. We don't see that. In the past that was part of minimalism, but high gloss is really gone. We really don't see that anymore.
[29:31] A look at the kitchen of 2040
Jerry Helmers: Can I ask you for a prediction of the future? We record this podcast in 2025 and you know it: everything that goes on the Internet is preserved. But suppose we record another podcast in 15 years. So then we're in the year 2040. What will the kitchen look like then?
Jos Creemers: Customization.
Jerry Helmers: Customization?
Jos Creemers: Customization, yes. Just floor-to-ceiling, more and more. Just really built-in, built-in cabinets. Everything more unified.
Jerry Helmers: Yes?
Jos Creemers: Yes, but then still I see a very futuristic island in front of it, in front of a cabinet wall. And in that closet wall, everything goes automatically. You can keep track of everything. Your refrigerator, your oven. You already see it coming back now with a lot of brands. But I think there's even more future in that.
[30:28] The smart kitchen and AI
Jerry Helmers: So indeed, in the future the consumer almost doesn't have to think for himself. The kitchen thinks for him or her.
Jos Creemers: Yes, that's right.
Jerry Helmers: AI is going to win out. How do you see that, Maarten, as you take a look ahead, over the next 15 years?
Maarten Zegstroo: AI is coming around the corner now, of course. But essentially a lot of ovens were already pretty smart. Cook already pretty much automatically. Put the meat in and it measures how big it is, how heavy it is.
Jerry Helmers: Or on your cell phone you could watch what the meat looked like on an app.
Maarten Zegstroo: We are already very far into automatism I think. But I agree with Jos that we are moving into a future where the kitchen becomes even more of a part of a total concept. Even more of a showpiece.
Jerry Helmers: A showpiece to make the neighbors jealous?
Jos Creemers: So what do you mean by showpiece?
Maarten Zegstroo: Something they're proud of. Beautiful. It's a centerpiece of the house. It should be seen.
Jos Creemers: Sure, also for the neighbors. But mainly for yourself. But you also want to show it.
[31:38] The kitchen as part of the overall concept
Jerry Helmers: When you say the kitchen is becoming part of the bigger picture, that's a trend we've been seeing for years and agree on. But for you, at some point, will it come to the point where you have to sell those floors as well? Because you said at the beginning of this recording: we don't do that.
Jos Creemers: Do what you do best and keep doing it.
[32:17] Guest's last two minutes
Jerry Helmers: Unless Maarten has another bouncer?
Maarten Zegstroo: No.
Jerry Helmers: You're also curious about Jos' two minutes. Because we've almost come to the conclusion of this podcast. The ending with a nice benefit, Jos. Maarten says nothing more and I shut up too. You get two minutes of speaking time. For my part you promote your own company gigantically. Because, of course, this is also the Loekie the Lion moment. But in the end you can also come back to something that, in hindsight, you may not agree with in this podcast. It's totally your two minutes. Are you ready?
[33:02] The message from Jos Creemers
Jos Creemers: Well thank you gentlemen, it was a nice conversation. Just a little bit more about the company where and how I built it, so the listeners also know where I came from and how I built it. Once again, Jos Creemers, owner and founder of CreJos Keukens Interieurs. Started for myself in 2008, just on my own in the workshop, started in the factory. Before that I attended a furniture school in Maaseik in Belgium. So from there I started on my own pretty quickly. I was 21. Then I started with staff and expanded the company. I have always believed in not only the private side, but also the business side. You have to build value in your business. That's why I started a dealer network. So that means we now have eight businesses in the Netherlands that we supply kitchens for. Those are kitchen dealers. What do we make for them? First of all, we make the showroom interior. So there will be one or more kitchens there in the showroom. And from there we can start producing. Why a CreJos kitchen? CreJos kitchen is simply: everything is possible. Everything is custom-made. Nothing is standard with us. But we are commercially minded. There are sales books, you can just put together your own kitchen. Everything we make in our own factory. What we're unique in is that we build every kitchen completely. We send those photos to the kitchen store. They can send them back to the consumer. The consumer then has confidence again. And the business sees what they get. And if we deliver it then the product is right. So if you're interested, contact us. And then I want to thank you for this podcast.
[34:54] Closing the episode
Jerry Helmers: Have six seconds left. Then also mention your website.
Jos Creemers: CreJos.nl.
Jerry Helmers: CreJos.co.uk. And so we have come to the conclusion of this episode in the KitchenCast series. Jos, how did you experience your national podcast debut?
Jos Creemers: Pff ... terrible.
Jerry Helmers: Did you think it was terrible? With such a nice columnist across from you? The record button is still on huh. Maarten, how did you experience it?
Maarten Zegstroo: As very instructive just to speak to a type of entrepreneur like Jos.
Jerry Helmers: Well, Jos, I want to thank you for coming to the studio. It was a three-minute drive for you. Maarten, you too, of course, very nice to be there and to break in as well. And a good column this time. It's always nicely put together, the Maartens Menuutje as we call it.
Jerry Helmers: Listeners, you've been listening to KeukenCast, the podcast for trade professionals with ambition in the kitchen industry. My name is Jerry Helmers and I was your host and presenter. Thanks again to our regular sidekick and kitchen expert Maarten Zegstroo. Will you stop by KitchenCast sometime? Would be fun. Check out www.keukenbouw-online.nl. You are most welcome.
Jerry Helmers: Engineering was in the trusted hands of Daan Halters and Mark Schouten. Project manager: Folkert van der Werf. Final editing of our magazine of course with Suzanne Peek. KeukenCast is a production of Louwers Mediagroep in Weert. Until the next episode, until the next KeukenCast.
